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Features / Usability

Features / Usability


Need unbiased opinion about Tikiwiki.

Hi Folks,

I'm a grad student in a Comp.Sci.Eng department and my Professor wants to upgrade our very basic laboratory website. I've been looking at several CMS systems and have narrowed choice down to Tiki and Drupal. I need some advice on Tiki capabilities and features ?

Basically this is what we want:-
1 - Some links/content for unauthenticated users/general public
2 - The above + some extra links for internal users such as
wiki, calendar, file galleries etc.
3 - Each internal user should have their own homepage which they can
customise to their tastes (with restrictions).
4- A main feature that we're looking for is a way to store a list of all the Lab's publications. Then each internal user can list their own publications on their
personal page using some type of query system. Is there any way to do this in Tiki ?
(This requirement is very important)
5- A WYSIWYG facility for the internal users would be good. This is so they can
easily customise their personal pages.

We're also very concerned about security since we will have a public facing website and yet we want to keep a lot of stuff internal only. How does Tiki compare to other CMS systems in terms of security. ?

Hoping for an unbiased :-) opinion and advice.
Thanks in advance.
Arjun


Is this a good program? Yes. It has so much in one program: blog, directory, gallery, forum, etc.

Is it easy to use? No. Documentation is not very good and a lot of working with this is guesswork. In fact, it's gotten so bad my webhost is seriously thinking of writing up a user manual.

Japan

>In fact, it's gotten so bad my webhost is seriously thinking of writing up a user manual.

If he decides to, invite him to contribute to http://doc.tikiwiki.org. Then all can benefit, and the inevitable errors can be corrected. wink

-- Gary

> >In fact, it's gotten so bad my webhost is seriously thinking of writing up a user manual.
>
> If he decides to, invite him to contribute to http://doc.tikiwiki.org. Then all can benefit, and the inevitable errors can be corrected. wink
>
> — Gary

She. And the problem with adding it to the docs here is that (sorry to be blunt) it's so mixed up in places that it would only add to the confusion. If she does do it, it will be for the users of the webhost and I will be happy to post a link.

We both like this program but sometimes it's so frustrating to use that I find myself seriously eying MediaWiki.

Japan

> > >In fact, it's gotten so bad my webhost is seriously thinking of writing up a user manual.
> >
> > If he decides to, invite him to contribute to http://doc.tikiwiki.org. Then all can benefit, and the inevitable errors can be corrected. wink
> >
> > — Gary
>
> She.

Sorry for the unwarranted assumption.

> And the problem with adding it to the docs here is that (sorry to be blunt) it's so mixed up in places that it would only add to the confusion. If she does do it, it will be for the users of the webhost and I will be happy to post a link.

Well, doc.tw.o is intended to be the definitive Tiki documentation, and information at tikiwiki.org migrated over to it. This is a work in progress, obviously.

It's probably a good idea for a web host to have special docs for her users, too, especially if there are issues specific to that service.

> We both like this program but sometimes it's so frustrating to use that I find myself seriously eying ))MediaWiki((.

))MediaWikiis great but the right tool needs to be chosen for the job. Last time I checked,MediaWiki(( had a rather small subset of Tiki's features and functions. The Tiki sprawl is partly why people have trouble getting everything to work as they want, and also why documentation is such a challenge. More narrowly-focused tools are apt to be more mature, but by definition will not have all the things that Tiki provides.

-- Gary - themes.tw.o

> ))MediaWikiis great but the right tool needs to be chosen for the job. Last time I checked,MediaWiki(( had a rather small subset of Tiki's features and functions. The Tiki sprawl is partly why people have trouble getting everything to work as they want, and also why documentation is such a challenge. More narrowly-focused tools are apt to be more mature, but by definition will not have all the things that Tiki provides.
>
> — Gary - themes.tw.o

Unfortunetely that doesn't help me now ... weeks of getting the site put together, take off a couple days to finish it up and publish it and all I'm getting is blank pages.

Unfortunetely that doesn't help me now ... weeks of getting the site put together, take off a couple days to finish it up and publish it and all I'm getting is blank pages.

I agree mostly about the docs. However, usually and answer is out there somewhere wink.

As for blank pages see InstallWithOnlyFtpAccess, this is frequently reported.
memory_limit = 32M
generally will resolve the problem.


Stacy

>
Unfortunetely that doesn't help me now ... weeks of getting the site put together, take off a couple days to finish it up and publish it and all I'm getting is blank pages.

> I agree mostly about the docs. However, usually and answer is out there somewhere wink.
>

> As for blank pages see InstallWithOnlyFtpAccess, this is frequently reported.
memory_limit = 32M
generally will resolve the problem.

>
> Stacy

But what can I do about it? I can't get in!

Unfortunetely that doesn't help me now ... weeks of getting the site put together, take off a couple days to finish it up and publish it and all I'm getting is blank pages.

I agree mostly about the docs. However, usually and answer is out there somewhere wink.

As for blank pages see InstallWithOnlyFtpAccess, this is frequently reported.
memory_limit = 32M
generally will resolve the problem.


Stacy

But what can I do about it? I can't get in!


You'll need someway to modify the php variables memory_limit and max_execution_time
These comments describe three methods of doing this. Of course you will need someway to access these files. php.ini is normally in /etc, .htaccess is in (or can be created) in your Tiki root directory, and finally the ini_set method is applied to tiki-setup.php in your Tiki root directory.

With methods 1 & 2 you can use phpinfo under the admin menu to determine if they are indeed set. Method three requires a module or some php code else where to test.

>
> You'll need someway to modify the php variables memory_limit and max_execution_time
> These comments describe three methods of doing this. Of course you will need someway to access these files. php.ini is normally in /etc, .htaccess is in (or can be created) in your Tiki root directory, and finally the ini_set method is applied to tiki-setup.php in your Tiki root directory.
>
> With methods 1 & 2 you can use phpinfo under the admin menu to determine if they are indeed set. Method three requires a module or some php code else where to test.

I did this:

Add/Modify .htaccess
php_value memory_limit 32M;
php_value max_execution_time 300;

* Apache server must allow this
* Potentially disabled by ISPs

That didn't work.

Is there anyway for me to get the work I've already done?

Japan

> I did this:

> Add/Modify .htaccess
> php_value memory_limit 32M;
> php_value max_execution_time 300;

Do you mean your server admin edited the php.ini file?

> Is there anyway for me to get the work I've already done?

You have ftp access and can access your Tiki database with phpMyAdmin, right? Do a database dump with phpMyAdmin or some other tool and you can get all your wiki pages, etc. With ftp you can get any files you uploaded as content or custom templates, etc. You can either install Tiki on another server and put your pages back in via phpMyAdmin, or you can use a text editor to get the page content from your downloaded .sql file.

-- Gary - http://zukakakina.com

> > I did this:
>
> > Add/Modify .htaccess
> > php_value memory_limit 32M;
> > php_value max_execution_time 300;
>
> Do you mean your server admin edited the php.ini file?
>
> > Is there anyway for me to get the work I've already done?
>
> You have ftp access and can access your Tiki database with phpMyAdmin, right? Do a database dump with phpMyAdmin or some other tool and you can get all your wiki pages, etc. With ftp you can get any files you uploaded as content or custom templates, etc. You can either install Tiki on another server and put your pages back in via phpMyAdmin, or you can use a text editor to get the page content from your downloaded .sql file.
>
> — Gary - http://zukakakina.com
>

No I modified the .htaccess file. But I finally got it working by renaming the templates_c/en file (since for some reason I couldn't delete it}. I do have to figure out how to emptying that though.

I haven;t been able to find out how much the memory limit is since it doesn't seem to appear under the phpinfo.

Japan

> > ))MediaWikiis great but the right tool needs to be chosen for the job. Last time I checked,MediaWiki(( had a rather small subset of Tiki's features and functions. The Tiki sprawl is partly why people have trouble getting everything to work as they want, and also why documentation is such a challenge. More narrowly-focused tools are apt to be more mature, but by definition will not have all the things that Tiki provides.
> >
> > — Gary - themes.tw.o
>
> Unfortunetely that doesn't help me now ... weeks of getting the site put together, take off a couple days to finish it up and publish it and all I'm getting is blank pages.

I thought you said you were considering ))MediaWiki((.

It's worth keeping in mind that Tiki does work, so if it's the best fit for your needs, it can be used. I've got 10 Tiki installations on several different servers, some hosted domains, some not, and they all work, with no blank pages or other such problems. My hostrocket.com Tikis (cunningham-lee.com and zukakakina.com and others) are even running with a low memory setting. I installed another at a new domain yesterday and the whole process was as smooth as silk.

If your Tiki isn't working, it's because something is not configured suitably or installed correctly. It is a problem that the documentation is sometimes hit-and-miss, but I think the installation/setup docs are pretty thorough. Success also depends on the user reading and following the directions carefully.

-- Gary


Japan

> Hi Folks,
>
> I'm a grad student in a Comp.Sci.Eng department and my Professor wants to upgrade our very basic laboratory website. I've been looking at several CMS systems and have narrowed choice down to Tiki and Drupal. I need some advice on Tiki capabilities and features ?
>
> Basically this is what we want:-
> 1 - Some links/content for unauthenticated users/general public
> 2 - The above + some extra links for internal users such as
> wiki, calendar, file galleries etc.

From what I see, both Tiki and Drupal provide permissions on a group basis. I don't know specifically how Drupal's works, but Tiki handles this with no problem.

> 3 - Each internal user should have their own homepage which they can
> customise to their tastes (with restrictions).

This is a standard feature of Tiki.

> 4- A main feature that we're looking for is a way to store a list of all the Lab's publications. Then each internal user can list their own publications on their
> personal page using some type of query system. Is there any way to do this in Tiki ?
> (This requirement is very important)

I'm not sure exactly how you mean the query system to be used, but it seems this could be done with Tiki. Trackers are a Tiki mechanism to store data and be able to query it, and there is a Tracker plugin to display data in wiki pages. But I don't have much experience myself with Trackers, so maybe someone else can help out on this one.

> 5- A WYSIWYG facility for the internal users would be good. This is so they can
> easily customise their personal pages.

I'm not sure what the status of the WYSIWYG editor (FCKeditor) is for Tiki's wiki pages. The option is ghosted on the latest Tiki version admin page.

> We're also very concerned about security since we will have a public facing website and yet we want to keep a lot of stuff internal only. How does Tiki compare to other CMS systems in terms of security. ?

I think this kind of private/public set-up is pretty standard for Tiki sites, and works well in my experience, as long as the perms are set correctly.

About security in general, my impression is that it is a very high priority for Tiki's developers. Responses to vulnerabilities are quick.

Also try asking on IRC (see the link in the menu here) where more developers are apt to be found.

-- Gary - zukakakina.com

Thanks Chiba,

I'll look up the Tracker feature.

Cheers
Arjun

> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > I'm a grad student in a Comp.Sci.Eng department and my Professor wants to upgrade our very basic laboratory website. I've been looking at several CMS systems and have narrowed choice down to Tiki and Drupal. I need some advice on Tiki capabilities and features ?
> >
> > Basically this is what we want:-
> > 1 - Some links/content for unauthenticated users/general public
> > 2 - The above + some extra links for internal users such as
> > wiki, calendar, file galleries etc.
>
> From what I see, both Tiki and Drupal provide permissions on a group basis. I don't know specifically how Drupal's works, but Tiki handles this with no problem.
>
> > 3 - Each internal user should have their own homepage which they can
> > customise to their tastes (with restrictions).
>
> This is a standard feature of Tiki.
>
> > 4- A main feature that we're looking for is a way to store a list of all the Lab's publications. Then each internal user can list their own publications on their
> > personal page using some type of query system. Is there any way to do this in Tiki ?
> > (This requirement is very important)
>
> I'm not sure exactly how you mean the query system to be used, but it seems this could be done with Tiki. Trackers are a Tiki mechanism to store data and be able to query it, and there is a Tracker plugin to display data in wiki pages. But I don't have much experience myself with Trackers, so maybe someone else can help out on this one.
>
> > 5- A WYSIWYG facility for the internal users would be good. This is so they can
> > easily customise their personal pages.
>
> I'm not sure what the status of the WYSIWYG editor (FCKeditor) is for Tiki's wiki pages. The option is ghosted on the latest Tiki version admin page.
>
> > We're also very concerned about security since we will have a public facing website and yet we want to keep a lot of stuff internal only. How does Tiki compare to other CMS systems in terms of security. ?
>
> I think this kind of private/public set-up is pretty standard for Tiki sites, and works well in my experience, as long as the perms are set correctly.
>
> About security in general, my impression is that it is a very high priority for Tiki's developers. Responses to vulnerabilities are quick.
>
> Also try asking on IRC (see the link in the menu here) where more developers are apt to be found.
>
> — Gary - zukakakina.com


United States

> 4- A main feature that we're looking for is a way to store a list of all the Lab's publications. Then each internal user can list their own publications on their
> personal page using some type of query system. Is there any way to do this in Tiki ?
> (This requirement is very important)

It seems to me that this can be done quite easily with Tiki's DIRECTORY feature. Simply categorize each publication by author (and/or subject, etc.). Then you can simply list the directory in a specific category.

HTH,

-Rick


Okay another question. I got this working and am looking at this:

max_execution_time = 300 ; Maximum execution time of each script, in seconds
max_input_time = 60 ; Maximum amount of time each script may spend parsing request data
memory_limit = 32M ; Maximum amount of memory a script may consume

Well, for me the first nuber is 30, the second 60, and I can't find the last number. Anyone know how I can find it?


Despite my sometimes screaing frustration with TikiWiki, I endorse it wholeheartedly and I do believe it can do everything you wish. As my webhost puts it:

"The organization of the help is atrocious. It's just mind boggling that they go to such lengths to create a wildly functional program, and then fall on their faces with the help for it."

I do hope, once I get my site up and running, to help out with the docs.

Canada

>
> I do hope, once I get my site up and running, to help out with the docs.

We are looking for more volunteers for the documentation.

M ;-)


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