Re: Re: Re: Re: Tiki Bounty System

posts: 1811 Catalan Countries

Hi: This is a nice, important (and long) discussion :-)

I mostly agree with all comments, and I like the most nyltoh's suggested solutions for the possible problems exposed.

Nevertheless, I want to extend the discussion for things not directly related with money, but related to the thread a problem behind:

we need to improve the communication system between coders "willing to work on others' itches" (I take mose's term) and power users requesting bug fixing os suggesting/requesting feature enhancements. And maybe, the same way back: coders which don't find time for documenting or bug testing, and users (power users or simple new users who agree with the system) to work on those coder's itches.

This could be helped through present tw features (Contribution and Action log):

  • When a RFE or bug fixing request is shown, the amount of voluntary work for the community (coding, bug fixing, bug reporting, documenting...) could be a "plus" criteria to be taken into account. Money should be a plus, but not the only motivation for coders to take care of bugs, documenting, feature enhancements... Another motivation could be to help others which help TW community.

I like helping in bug reporting and documenting (when I find time for it, like in the last month) , since I felt this is one clear way to retribute back to TW community for the nice work done so far with the free software and community creation.

So I've been intrinsically motivated to help and invest time to TW community (bug reporting and documenting), because I know many people did that before and I could benefit from that cooperative work. And this way, others can benefit also from my voluntary work. Moreover, I could benefit from teaching Tikiwiki usage, being paid from my Catalan local government to teach free software for people that can suffer from the digital divide in our society. And I earned quite a lot of money for the tim invested (the code was working, and I mostly worked to document it in Catalan).

If I had known that TW was only created by paid coders on a paid job basis, as well as others being paid to document, mostly money-driven community, I guess I wouldn't have dedicated such amount of time to it in the last months, and least intensively, in the last years.... (answering forums support requests from time to time, and documenting a little bit from time to time). Why should I? But since I knew many people had contributed for free, so did I with my spare time.

I think that something similar could happen with coders, when I (or others) submit bug reports or RFE with a high value of priority for my own opinion (for my own interest for the non-profit Tiki sites I admin). Coders might will to help back for free on their spare time, to non-paid contributors to TW community. And the coders which need to be paid (or when the coders neeed to be paid) for bug fixing, feature enhancing, etc., they would mainly take into account the possible bounties offered. I understand that some coders do their best to live on TW coding (which is very fair and compatible, at least, with free software development): we all have to pay bills, etc.

As an example, Nyloth recently thanked to me and sylvie for reporting an issue/bug with a feature that nyloth very was concerned with (I guess :-). I imagine that coders also want to give feedback to users who also give feedback to the community. Payed feedback, or quantity and quality of effort/contribution dedicated to improve TW community.

So this measure of contribution size and/or quality should be taken into account (imho) in such an improved system (not only for payed bounties, but also to motivate community helpers to keep doing so).

Btw, as mentioned above, we have such feature pretty ready in 1.10 (Contribution + Action log, for the basic features in Tiki: wiki, forums and comments, among others). And probably soon (several weeks, expected), on trackers also (thanks to sylvie, which accepted to work on that (payed job).

So that, imagine that coders want to have people helping new users at TW community requesting help through the forums, and wiki page comments (and tagging that as "help request" through the contribution feature). Some users invest their time to help new users... They could use contribution feature to select that they were helping other users requests ("helping users", or at least attempting it).

Total amount of number and size of such contributions of that type, could be shown also in the user's info mouseover box (not coded yet), as a valuable way to indicate the more common type of contributions of that user. And this information, when seen in dev.tw.o/tracker5 , could help coders to consider taking also this RFE or bug report into consideration (regardless of bounty offered for them or not). In fact, it could be a way to make it easier for people to decide to wheter work on others itches or not. (coders on power user's itches, documenters on coder's documenting itches, etc.)

And this way, also, would promote users and coders with long term support for TW community...

For the other issues stated in this thread:
I would vote for the system in dev.tw.o (extending tracker5). I hate duplication of work, and making users be confused on too many places to send their comments, rfe, bug reports, etc.

(I prefer to avoid having lists of wishes for possibly payed work (depending on estimation of expenses coders and our budget left) in many sites spread in different places...

> We may specify a more flexible rule. For example :
> - no bid accepted for bounties if there is higher priority tracker items of priority > 8,
> - no bid accepted for bounties if there is higher priority tracker items that includes bugs (not new features),
> - no bid accepted for bounties if there is higher priority tracker items, except if the bounty has a high vote score,
> ...

And I like a lot the idea of filtering who can claim for bounties, and when bounties can be claimed, in case they are set up, in the same line that nyloth suggested... (if karma feature was one, I would vote to increase all of you your karma! :-)

Btw, a complementary measure to be shown in score info (shown in user's mouseover) is forum activity, and trackers activity.

And of course, a way to show the numbers of bugs fixed by that users (using contribution feature on trackers, even if it's not coded yet). Sylvie would be automatically given the nice credit she deserves for her continuous work she does, as many of you also do (I know Sylvie's case the most; sorry, not that much your cases, yet :-).

> > Possible problem 3: I think bugs should not be bountied. Even pledge of $20 to solve bug might cause crowding out of intrinsic motivation to fix bugs. This is my gut feel and also supported by economic theory that predicts crowding out. See http://www.slideshare.net/nice/crowding-effects-how-money-influences-open-source-projects-and-its-contributors/ By having all the bugs/feature requests and bounties together, the likelihood of crowding-out of intrinsic motivation could be very high.
> Ok, I agree with you on tha fact that we should avoid bounties for bugs.

I don't have a clear idea about this. I trust you all on what you decide (I do this "delegated voting..." suggested in http://vivarto.com/Nornorna :-) .

Well, my 2 cents...

P.S.: Or maybe, we could make use of the Community Currencies system coded by mose a couple of years ago?