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Architecture / Installation

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    • Before I get started...

    Posted by CyberShadow posts: 36 United Kingdom


    Hi. I am looking for a Wiki/CMS for my site, but I have had trouble with a previous software choice. So, I wanted to ask a few questions before I get started.

    1. In the past, I attempted to install a CMS but it ran really slowly - up to 30+ seconds for a page load. I think (although this is unconfirmed) that this was due to my web server having no InnoDB cache in place, and being unwilling to set this up on a shared server. Is this going to cause trouble with TikiWiki, and is there anything else that may cause it run slow that I should know about?

    2. I like the various features on TikiWiki, but I dont want to use them all. Is there a way that I can 'switch off' some of the features that I dont want available?

    3. I currently run a forum, and I want TikiWiki to share the database with it. Will the installation allow me to do this by using a prefix, and are there specific instructions for it?

    That should cover it for now. Thanks in advance.

    Reads: 1471
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    Posted by Marc Laporte posts: 1633 Canada

    >
    > Hi. I am looking for a Wiki/CMS for my site, but I have had trouble with a previous software choice. So, I wanted to ask a few questions before I get started.
    >


    Good idea smile


    > 1. In the past, I attempted to install a CMS but it ran really slowly - up to 30+ seconds for a page load. I think (although this is unconfirmed) that this was due to my web server having no InnoDB cache in place, and being unwilling to set this up on a shared server. Is this going to cause trouble with TikiWiki, and is there anything else that may cause it run slow that I should know about?
    >


    Depends on your volume.

    I can personally attest that each new version of Tiki has gotten faster. 1.9 is clearly faster than 1.8, which is clearly faster than 1.7 ( I don't remember before that). Some indexes were added and some optimizations were done as bottlenecks were reached.

    TikiWiki has a really bad reputation for performance because, for the longest time, tikiwiki.org was hosted on a personal server. This server was old, overloaded and I think the link to the Internet was slow as well. Ever since we are on a vserver, it has been zippy.

    Many of the *.tikiwiki.org sites run on inexpensive, shared servers. Performance is fine.

    Reality: we have no metrics to compare Tiki performance to other similar applications (Drupal, Mambo, etc) but but my impression that Tiki is at least as good as the average.


    > 2. I like the various features on TikiWiki, but I dont want to use them all. Is there a way that I can 'switch off' some of the features that I dont want available?
    >

    Yes, of course. Only turn on what you want.


    > 3. I currently run a forum, and I want TikiWiki to share the database with it. Will the installation allow me to do this by using a prefix, and are there specific instructions for it?
    >

    That could get tricky. Most Tikiers use Tiki forum so you'll have to look around and find if anyone has made a migration script or a way to share the login.

    Do you have lots of users/messages? Which forum app is it?


    > That should cover it for now. Thanks in advance.
    >

    Please also see:
    http://marclaporte.com/TikiSucks
    I think you will find some interesting info smile

    Best regards,

    M ;-)

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    Posted by CyberShadow posts: 36 United Kingdom


    Many thanks for your fast response. Much appreciated, and already one tick for TikiWiki! razz

    > Depends on your volume.
    >
    > I can personally attest that each new version of Tiki has gotten faster. 1.9 is clearly faster than 1.8, which is clearly faster than 1.7 ( I don't remember before that). Some indexes were added and some optimizations were done as bottlenecks were reached.
    >
    > TikiWiki has a really bad reputation for performance because, for the longest time, tikiwiki.org was hosted on a personal server. This server was old, overloaded and I think the link to the Internet was slow as well. Ever since we are on a vserver, it has been zippy.
    >
    > Many of the *.tikiwiki.org sites run on inexpensive, shared servers. Performance is fine.
    >
    > Reality: we have no metrics to compare Tiki performance to other similar applications (Drupal, Mambo, etc) but but my impression that Tiki is at least as good as the average.
    >

    Fair enough. I dont need light speed! However, I do feel that 30 seconds for a page load (no exageration) is excessive. If I can get page loads down to under 5 seconds then I will be happy.

    Volume wont be huge. My current forum has around 200 active members right now, and I would expect most of these to additionally sign up to the CMS.

    I am unaware of any history of TikiWiki or reputation, but I will be running it on a public and fairly standard shared server. I am happy to act as a metric on this. I hate to set up direct comparrisons here, but my previous tool was 'bitweaver'.

    > Yes, of course. Only turn on what you want.

    Excellent. I thought that this would be the case, but I wanted to make sure.

    > That could get tricky. Most Tikiers use Tiki forum so you'll have to look around and find if anyone has made a migration script or a way to share the login.
    >
    > Do you have lots of users/messages? Which forum app is it?

    I think that you misunderstand. I am not looking for a way to have a single login for both systems. Asking users to register for the two sides seperately is something that I can live with if I have to. (Although, if I could find a single login system for both aspects, then I would be interested. mrgreen)

    My current forum is IkonBoard (not upgraded to IkonForum yet). This sets up use of the database with a prefix (which I have used 'tac_'). All that I need to know is if I can set up TikiWiki using the same database, but seperate tables in the database, which wont interfere with the tables already set up for the forum. For example, some other applicatons allow use of another prefix, such as 'wiki_' so that the tables can be stored together but kept seperate. Can I do the same thing with TikiWiki, given that the forum is already set up with a unique prefix, and are there any specific instructions for doing this?

    > Please also see:
    > http://marclaporte.com/TikiSucks
    > I think you will find some interesting info smile
    >
    > Best regards,
    >
    > M ;-)

    Many thanks. I will read through this shortly. Thanks again for your help.

    All the best.

    Link
    Posted by CyberShadow posts: 36 United Kingdom


    Perhaps not very sensible, but I decided to go ahead and try an install anyway! So, I can answer my own questions. surprised

    "Fair enough. I dont need light speed! However, I do feel that 30 seconds for a page load (no exageration) is excessive. If I can get page loads down to under 5 seconds then I will be happy."

    TikiWiki runs on my site at around 4-6 seconds for a page load. Perfect? No. Acceptible? Yes. I will investigate further optimisation later.

    "Yes, of course. Only turn on what you want."

    You are correct... but I guess that you already knew that! biggrin

    "My current forum is IkonBoard (not upgraded to IkonForum yet). This sets up use of the database with a prefix (which I have used 'tac_'). All that I need to know is if I can set up TikiWiki using the same database, but seperate tables in the database, which wont interfere with the tables already set up for the forum. For example, some other applicatons allow use of another prefix, such as 'wiki_' so that the tables can be stored together but kept seperate. Can I do the same thing with TikiWiki, given that the forum is already set up with a unique prefix, and are there any specific instructions for doing this?"

    I am able to set up TikiWiki on the same database as my forum, but largely because my forum allows database sharing and has table prefixes. So, my forums 'user' table is different from TikiWikis 'user' table because the forum allows the use of a prefix, making it 'tac_users or similar.

    This does mean that it is impossible to install TikiWiki twice on the same database, but my forum can be installed twice simply be selecting different prefixes. Perhaps something to consider for a future release of TikiWiki?

    Thanks again. I am sure that more questions will follow.

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    Posted by Marc Laporte posts: 1633 Canada

    > Perhaps not very sensible, but I decided to go ahead and try an install anyway! So, I can answer my own questions. surprised

    Life on the edge!


    > TikiWiki runs on my site at around 4-6 seconds for a page load. Perfect? No. Acceptible? Yes. I will investigate further optimisation later.
    >

    At first, Tiki is bit slower, because it is building its cache in templates_c

    > This does mean that it is impossible to install TikiWiki twice on the same database, but my forum can be installed twice simply be selecting different prefixes. Perhaps something to consider for a future release of TikiWiki?

    You are correct. Each Tiki needs its database.

    If someone wants to write it, sure, why not? But I don't have a feeling this is going to happen. I don't think any developer is going to have the need/desire/itch to change this because most hosts offer several databases and it's cleaner for backups, etc.

    >
    > Thanks again. I am sure that more questions will follow.

    My pleasure!

    M ;-)

    Link
    Posted by Marc Laporte posts: 1633 Canada

    >
    > Many thanks for your fast response. Much appreciated, and already one tick for TikiWiki! razz
    >

    hehe


    > Volume wont be huge. My current forum has around 200 active members right now, and I would expect most of these to additionally sign up to the CMS. I am unaware of any history of TikiWiki or reputation, but I will be running it on a public and fairly standard shared server.


    Ok. You should expect this level of performance on a shared server, with 1.9.8:
    http://themes.tikiwiki.org/tiki-forums.php

    I often get less than 1 second to generate the page (according to counter at the bottom).


    > I think that you misunderstand. I am not looking for a way to have a single login for both systems. Asking users to register for the two sides seperately is something that I can live with if I have to. (Although, if I could find a single login system for both aspects, then I would be interested. mrgreen)


    Well, one solution is to use an all-in-one solution like Tiki. :-)



    > My current forum is IkonBoard (not upgraded to IkonForum yet). This sets up use of the database with a prefix (which I have used 'tac_'). All that I need to know is if I can set up TikiWiki using the same database, but seperate tables in the database, which wont interfere with the tables already set up for the forum. For example, some other applicatons allow use of another prefix, such as 'wiki_' so that the tables can be stored together but kept seperate. Can I do the same thing with TikiWiki, given that the forum is already set up with a unique prefix, and are there any specific instructions for doing this?
    >

    I see now. So your host limits you just to one database?

    Please see:
    http://tikiwiki.cvs.sourceforge.net/tikiwiki/tiki/db/tiki.sql?view=markup

    Tiki has three prefixes for its tables:
    galaxia_
    tiki_
    users_

    For galaxia_ & tiki_, there is little chance of collision (unless you install 2 Tikis!). So you just need to check if your DB has something which starts with users_ (which doesn't seem to be the case, from your message)

    If there was collision: I remember someone wrote something way back for Tiki to be able to use different table names than the defaults. But I feel this is fragile at best. I would ask my host for an extra DB. It's much nicer for each app to have its DB. For backups, etc

    Best regards,

    M ;-)

    Link
    Posted by CyberShadow posts: 36 United Kingdom


    "Life on the edge!"

    That is me - I live on danger! mrgreen

    "If someone wants to write it, sure, why not? But I don't have a feeling this is going to happen. I don't think any developer is going to have the need/desire/itch to change this because most hosts offer several databases and it's cleaner for backups, etc"

    No problem. I have this sorted now. I didnt know if it would a feature useful for others.

    "Well, one solution is to use an all-in-one solution like Tiki. :-)"

    Potentially. But, the forum that I use is more user friendly, has more features, and the community is already established there.

    "I see now. So your host limits you just to one database?"

    Yes. Is this unusual? It seemed reasonable to me, and the hosts are actually really good, generally.

    OK. On to a few more questions.

    1. What is the quickest and easiest way to get rid of the 'TikiWiki Assistant' box in the bottom left corner?

    2. I read a review somewhere that said that it is best to use the default layout/skin because others dont generally work with all of the features, etc. Is this still the case? Which skins are the most stable?

    Next step - colours and layouts! exclaim

    Thanks.

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    Posted by Rick Sapir / Tiki for Smarties posts: 3665 United States

    >
    > OK. On to a few more questions.
    >
    > 1. What is the quickest and easiest way to get rid of the 'TikiWiki Assistant' box in the bottom left corner?
    >

    Just turn it off, from the Admin Module page. See the docs for details.

    >
    > 2. I read a review somewhere that said that it is best to use the default layout/skin because others dont generally work with all of the features, etc. Is this still the case? Which skins are the most stable?
    >

    Take a look at the Themes site for lots of well-designed (and good looking!) themes.


    -Rick
    -My Tiki Blog: Help, Hints, and Hacks

    Link